The core message of this podcast is simple but powerful: effective law enforcement and military training demand a deep understanding of the human mind, emotional resilience, and a steady moral compass. Training can’t stop at tactics and drills. It must prepare people mentally and emotionally to face violence, stress, and trauma—the harsh realities of their duty. Violence is inevitable. It’s part of our nature, part of the battlefield both outside and inside us. But that doesn’t mean surrendering to savagery. True warriors balance the Lion within with civility, honor, and self-control. That balance is the line between becoming a monster and remaining a guardian. Murray demands realism. He calls for training that’s brutally honest but maximally supportive, psychologically grounded, and tough enough to prepare men and women for the harsh truths of their roles. Because understanding the human psyche—and mastering it—is the difference between collapse and victory. Between chaos and order. Understanding the human mind and the nature of violence isn’t just theory—it’s the foundation for building law enforcement and military professionals who are strong, humane, and resilient. That kind of strength, grounded in wisdom and compassion, is what true leadership looks like.
Topics
The podcast features a conversation with Ken Murray, author of “Training at the Speed of Life”.
Ken Murray’s book, published in 2004, is considered a classic.
Classics and Influences
Ken mentions Dave Grossman’s “On Killing” and “On Combat” as influential books in the field.
He also highlights Alexis Artwohl’s “Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement” and “Make it Stick” from the psychological sciences.
The Peaceful Warrior
The concept of balancing the wish for peace with the necessity of violence is explored.
Civilization thrives when a balance between warlike and peaceful aspects exists.
Warriors fight wars started by others, and order sometimes requires violence to maintain regulation.
Training Implications
Selection of individuals with the capacity for violence but not barbarism is crucial.
Heraclitus’ ratio of combat personnel (10% shouldn’t be there, 80% targets, 9% good fighters, 1% warrior) is discussed.
Training should focus on the 80% who are most malleable, with an individual journey.
Schooling to Savagery
Patton’s view on educating soldiers to “school themselves to savagery” is presented.
The ability to transform temporarily into a “frenzy beast” through mental and physical practice is emphasized.
The importance of maintaining 20th-century clarity of vision while being able to “charge” is highlighted.
Psychological Aspects of Killing
The psychological consequences of justified killing and the unlikelihood of repeated engagements are examined.
Mike Spies’ “Ace Factor” and the psychological aspects of decisive combat engagements are mentioned.
The need to bring individuals back emotionally and physically whole after being put in harm’s way is stressed.
Bringing Them Back Home
The epidemic of emotional breakdown in law enforcement and the military is acknowledged.
Various intervention programs and modalities, such as Mission 22, neural linguistic programming, and EMDR, are mentioned.
The Dual Sympathetic Reset and transcranial magnetic stimulation are discussed as potential treatments for trauma.
Post-Traumatic Stress and Training
Post-traumatic stress, absent a traumatic brain injury, is framed as a construct rather than a pathology.
The perceptual differences in how individuals experience and give meaning to traumatic events are examined.
The trainer’s concern about creating PRSD (Post-Reality Shock Disorder) by causing trainees to feel bad during training is highlighted.
Example of Poor Training
An example from the TV show “Flint Town” illustrates poor training practices that can lead to humiliation and risk aversiveness.
The importance of debriefing, remediation, and avoiding humiliation in training scenarios is emphasized.
Humiliation is identified as a powerful progenitor for creating risk aversiveness.
Overcoming Terror and Uncertainty
The importance of addressing terror and uncertainty in training is highlighted.
Fear is a mobilizing emotion, and the teachable moment lies at the “precipice of uncertainty”.
Well-structured, scenario-based training should test skills that have already been taught.
The Tally Curve
Dan Tally’s concept of the “tally curve,” representing capacity over time, is introduced.
The curve illustrates the progression from crawl to walk to run to assess, with a goal of reaching 80-90% capacity.
The importance of consolidation and allowing individuals to return for a second attempt is emphasized.
Temple of Awesome
The concept of the “Temple of Awesome,” where vulnerability is galvanized into strength, is introduced.
The importance of building trust and avoiding humiliation to uncover trainees’ vulnerabilities is stressed.
Training should focus on the 80% and take a longevity approach, with projects evolving into programs.
Longevity Approach to Training
A longevity approach to training is advocated, with a 5 to 7-year perspective on individual development.
Scenarios should be designed to progressively add desirable difficulties as trainees consolidate their skills.
The goal is for trainees to win with a “6:00 news ready conclusion” in every scenario.
Course Overview
The course is a one-week program with two days of technical instruction and three days of scenario-based training.
Participants learn how to write effective scenarios and then run those scenarios in small groups.
Scenarios revolve around three topics: people in conflict, vehicles, and suspicious persons.
Collaborative Learning Model
The Collaborative Learning model is used, where students observe their peers going through scenarios.
Observers gain runs of the scenario through observational learning, enhancing the overall learning experience.
Trainers and role players need to be well-trained and rehearsed to facilitate effective learning.
Debriefing and Facilitation
Each iteration of the scenario involves trainers, notional students, and observer resource people.
The facilitation model teaches how to dynamically and Socratic facilitate students through the scenario.
After each group of scenarios, the entire class debriefs the process, analyzing the roles and learning from the experience.
Wrap-Up and Psychological Aspects
On Friday, a “Round Table wrap-up” is conducted to discuss the week’s takeaways.
A lecture on the psychological aspects of dangerous encounters and the unintended consequences of well-intentioned training is given.
The importance of not breaking individuals during training is emphasized, using the example of Felix Baumgartner.
Boxing and Martial Arts
Boxing is discouraged as a combative art for law enforcement due to its aggressiveness and potential for injury.
Mixed Martial Arts, with short, long, and ground systems, is recommended.
The importance of adapting ground fighting techniques to cement environments and ecological dynamics is highlighted.
Qualities of Law Enforcement Officers
The discussion revolves around the qualities and training of law enforcement officers.
Emphasizes the need for a balance between academic knowledge and practical skills in police training.
Highlights the need for confidence and competence in using firearms, especially in critical situations.
The Three Fights and Importance of Pre-Planning
The discussion touches on Tony Blauer’s concept of “presumed compliance” and the three fights: the fight in yourself, the fight against the opponent, and the fight against society.
Emphasizes the importance of resolving internal conflicts and societal pressures before engaging in real-world confrontations.
Reinforces the idea that combat is not the place to change belief systems, echoing Patton’s sentiment.
Learning Through Feedback and Observation
Highlights the value of experience and the importance of feedback in the training process.
Touches upon the impact of personal experience on the learning process.
Key Takeaways and Hypnotic Influence
Common student takeaways include realizing the complexity of the job and the unintentional impact of training.
The concept of trainers as hypnotists, influencing students in a trance-like state, is introduced.
The dangers of creating risk-averse behavior through negative reinforcement and the importance of danger awareness are emphasized.
Fear vs. Danger and the Learning Experience
Differentiates between fear, which is perceived, and danger, which is real.
Underscores the importance of knowing the appropriate response to uncertainty at the moment of action.
Relates a story of an officer’s traumatic training experience and its long-lasting negative effects.
Responding to Threats & Training Scenarios
Emphasizes the importance of responding appropriately to threats, including the use of lethal force when necessary.
Reiterates the principle of talk, fight, shoot, or leave based on the situation.
Advocates for creating realistic training scenarios that prepare officers for the realities of their job.
Availability of the Training Course & Value of Live Action
The technical aspects of the course could be taught online, but not the experiential aspects.
In-person training allows the course to respond to each students needs and the dynamic changes of the live action.
Logistics and Availability
The pricing is dependent on how many attendees, but the more the better.
The value of the course is greater than the cost to attend.
Willing to travel and teach anywhere in the world.
Passing On Experience
Importance of capturing the knowledge of elder generation through podcast interviews
Having experienced elders at the training academies would be a valuable source of support for students
Need to focus on end state and have the organization support quality training
Durability, Simplicity, and Training
Need more durability in the training space and less rotational training
Everything taught should be simple, but it will not be easy
Need to choose the right role players with the appropriate levels for each scenario
Training Observers
Need to train the observers to understand that distractions can break the learning experience for a scenario
Pressure testing can be introduced but should come after the initial skills have been acquired
What is to be Enthused About
Need to focus on what’s not going to change and make those things better
Select higher quality individuals to deal with higher amounts of violence and unrest
Need to be careful about taking people from a gunless society and making them terrified of them
Long Guns and Competency
If using the “shoot” step it needs to be done fluently
Gunfighting should be practiced and done deliberately with simulation
There are no conventional shooting positions in real gun fights
Excitement and Legacy
Being able to simplify complicated thoughts for others
Books should be done and completed
Make sure the work is durable and people can learn in a meaningful way even when I’m not around
About Pretending
Don’t be a d*ck
People should embrace play and having fun
Get a do-over if you get it wrong because that’s the basis of scenario based training
Training Philosophy & Mindset
It’s crucial not to surprise learners but rather support them through new training scenarios
Observational learning is a valuable method of education
When people are headed home at the end of the day you need to preframe how they process the day
Podcast
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