“Von” Kliem: Police, Use of Force, The Law, De-escalation and Honest Accountability

Welcome to m y conversation with police officer, educator, and attorney “Von” Kliem about Police, Use of Force, The Law, De-escalation and Honest Accountability. And how training and education must prepare officers for their job. We cover a lot of fundamentals like honest accountablity: what can we expect (and what not) from officers in use of force in the light of human factors research? What is trauma informed critical incident interviewing and what not (and What is trauma-informed interviewing and what is not (with even more trauma possible for the police officer)? We also talk about he evolution of de-escalation tactics over the years and the many misconceptions (like the “magical incantation”). Von Kliem also elaborates on the principles of procedural justice, emphasizing fairness, transparency, and the importance of building trust between law enforcement and the community. We even touch upon the very difficult theme of Equality of Treatment vs. Equality of Outcome. And that in court the outcome is already known, but during the incident there is a lot of unpredictability. Enjoy and learn!




00:00 Introduction
04:23 Constitutional Policing
06:05 Procedural Justice
12:30 Equality of Opportunity vs. Equality of Outcome
20:12 Martial arts and becoming interested in the Law
28:23 Prediction gap
30:00 Working the street / reality of use of force
34: 50 Speed of Life, the uncertainty principle
36:00 Shooting the legs
44:00 Reality of the street and UOF
46:24 Realistic De-escalation
1:09:33 The Canavan framework
1:12:14 You dont know the outcome
1:15:50 Honest Accountability
1:19:21 Rember when you where a cop
1:21:26 Human Factors: time to stop
1: 28:20 Trauma Informed Interviewing
1:32:13 Limitations of video
1:33:46 Force Science mission and personal mission
1:39:54 Books to read
1:44:45 Lessons learned on the streets


With extensive experience as a police officer, educator, and attorney, Von provides cutting-edge training and consultation on constitutional policing, use of force, crisis communications, and trauma-informed interviewing. His expertise extends beyond police practices; with over 20 years committed to the response, investigation, and prosecution of family violence and sexual assault cases. 

With over 30 years in the Criminal Justice field, Von has held positions including Patrol Officer, Community Police Officer, Gang and Drug Investigator, Senior Use of Force Instructor, Street-level Patrol Supervisor, Parole Investigator, and Jailer. His legal positions included Chief Prosecutor, Special Victim’s Counsel, Police Legal Advisor, Senior Policy Attorney, Military Magistrate, Special Assistant U.S. Attorney, and Domestic Operational Law Attorney. In addition to his work with Force Science, Von was a senior public safety policy attorney for Lexipol.

As an Army Judge Advocate (Retired), Von was recognized as an Expert Military Justice Practitioner and highly sought-after Police Practices, Investigations, and Use of Force legal expert. As a member of the Army Staff, he supported some of the Pentagon’s top attorneys and drafted DoD and Army use-of-force policy.

Von is an Advanced Force Science Specialist and graduate of the FLETC Police Legal Advisors Training Program. He holds a Bachelor’s in Crime and Delinquency Studies, a Master’s in Criminal Justice Administration, a Law Degree (J.D.), and a Master’s in Law post-graduate degree (LL.M.). His Master’s thesis was on domestic violence response and police training. His LL.M. written scholarship analyzed police legal advising and 4th Amendment custody determinations.


Cynefin framework which we spoke about.